The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church. Ferdinand Magellan
I have seen this quote before and I love it! SO eloquent and expressive, and exactly how I feel. I trust myself and the evidence more than the Rabbis or Priests.
“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.” Ferdinand Magellan
The quote is a fabrication of Robert Green Ingersoll. It is found in his essay “Individuality.” This may be accessed at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/individuality.html It’s in the fourth paragraph of his essay:
“It is a blessed thing that in every age some one has had individuality enough and courage enough to stand by his own convictions, -- some one who had the grandeur to say his say. I believe it was Magellan who said, "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow than in the church." On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success.”
This fact—that it is not an authentic Magellan quote but is Ingersoll’s--was first pointed out, as far as I know, by Dr. Tom Gorski in his website “Knowing What Ain’t So” at http://www.churchoffreethought.org/cgi-bin/contray/contray.cgi?DATA=&ID=000011010&GROUP=048. Dr. Gorski is one of four founders of the The North Texas Church of Freethought.
To the credit of Wikiquote it clearly points out the quote is disputed and attributes it to Ingersoll http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Ferdinand_Magellan At http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Religion/Atheist%20Quotes.htm it immediately corrected the attribution: "The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church." ..........Robert Green Ingersoll (not Ferdinand Magellan) At http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-63650.html they already were able to determine that it was Ingersoll who in fact said the words he attributes to Magellan. “Regarding a flat earth, please note that Ingersoll used a quote attributed to Ferdinand Magellan (1480-1521), the Portuguese and Spanish explorer: ‘The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church.’ Ingersoll uses this quote to make a point: ‘The trouble with most people is, they bow to what is called authority.’ Ingersoll's thrust in this article is that ‘It is the duty of each and every one to maintain his individuality’ and ‘There can be nothing more utterly subversive of all that is really valuable than the suppression of honest thought--No man, worthy of the form he bears, will at the command of church or state solemnly repeat a creed his reason scorns.’ I agree with Ingersoll. If you do not, that is certainly your privilege.” The author assumes Ingersoll got it from an authentic source. But I have read the primary sources on Magellan—eyewitness accounts by Antonio Pigafetta, Gines de Mafra, Francisco Albo, The Genoese Pilot, Martinho de Aiamonte, Sebastian Elcano—nowhere is there such a statement from Magellan. Ingersoll most definitely cites no authority. Vicente Calibo de Jesus ginesdemafra@gmail.com
Someone around here has too much free time, and for once I actually don't think it's me ...
Vic, thanks for commenting so ... extensively. It was interesting (although I have to confess I didn't read the footnotes ;-). But in all honesty, whether or not the quote is genuine, I don't really care. Whoever said it, it's true. But thanks.
I have seen this quote before and I love it! SO eloquent and expressive, and exactly how I feel.
ReplyDeleteI trust myself and the evidence more than the Rabbis or Priests.
Eh? Hvilken kirke har noensinne påstått at jorden var flat?
ReplyDeleteMagellan quote is a fabrication
ReplyDelete“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.” Ferdinand Magellan
The quote is a fabrication of Robert Green Ingersoll. It is found in his essay “Individuality.” This may be accessed at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/individuality.html
It’s in the fourth paragraph of his essay:
“It is a blessed thing that in every age some one has had individuality enough and courage enough to stand by his own convictions, -- some one who had the grandeur to say his say. I believe it was Magellan who said, "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow than in the church." On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success.”
This fact—that it is not an authentic Magellan quote but is Ingersoll’s--was first pointed out, as far as I know, by Dr. Tom Gorski in his website “Knowing What Ain’t So” at http://www.churchoffreethought.org/cgi-bin/contray/contray.cgi?DATA=&ID=000011010&GROUP=048. Dr. Gorski is one of four founders of the The North Texas Church of Freethought.
To the credit of Wikiquote it clearly points out the quote is disputed and attributes it to Ingersoll http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Ferdinand_Magellan
At http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Religion/Atheist%20Quotes.htm it immediately corrected the attribution: "The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."
..........Robert Green Ingersoll (not Ferdinand Magellan)
At http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-63650.html they already were able to determine that it was Ingersoll who in fact said the words he attributes to Magellan. “Regarding a flat earth, please note that Ingersoll used a quote attributed to Ferdinand Magellan (1480-1521), the Portuguese and Spanish explorer: ‘The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church.’ Ingersoll uses this quote to make a point: ‘The trouble with most people is, they bow to what is called authority.’ Ingersoll's thrust in this article is that ‘It is the duty of each and every one to maintain his individuality’ and ‘There can be nothing more utterly subversive of all that is really valuable than the suppression of honest thought--No man, worthy of the form he bears, will at the command of church or state solemnly repeat a creed his reason scorns.’ I agree with Ingersoll. If you do not, that is certainly your privilege.” The author assumes Ingersoll got it from an authentic source. But I have read the primary sources on Magellan—eyewitness accounts by Antonio Pigafetta, Gines de Mafra, Francisco Albo, The Genoese Pilot, Martinho de Aiamonte, Sebastian Elcano—nowhere is there such a statement from Magellan. Ingersoll most definitely cites no authority.
Vicente Calibo de Jesus
ginesdemafra@gmail.com
List of URLs w/ Magellan quote:
1. aclevercookie http://www.aclevercookie.com/10-greatest-quotes-on-religion/
2. alternet http://www.alternet.org/story/47765/
3. altreligion http://altreligion.about.com/library/bl_quotes2.htm
4. andy http://www.andymellett.com/
5. angelfire http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/irishpower/quotes.html
6. antichrist http://www.antichrist.net/tony.html
7. aps http://community.vietfun.com/showthread.php?t=495648&page=5
8. atheist empire http://atheistempire.com/greatminds/greatest.php#atheism
9. atheists.net http://www.atheists.net/tcas/canat6.html
10. Athens http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8666/hat_quotes.html
11. au.answers http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20071209090355AARqx9w
12. audiogon http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?hbest&990750012&openfrom&9&4
13. azbilliards http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=969595
14. baland http://www.baland.net/melissa/quotes.html
15. bebo2nd www.bebo2nd.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=326122181
16. bigdumbchimp http://bigdumbchimp.blogspot.com/2006/04/quote-down.html
17. blog.360 http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-PgtlUDwiYqp2I2hvYwUlhX4-?cq=1&p=450
18. bniphilippines http://bniphilippines.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/magellan-discover-harvest/
19. bobbuechler http://bobbuechler.vox.com/library/video/6a00e398bfe29f000100e398c39b450001.html
20. boldts http://boldts.net/Tor-Churches5.shtml
21. btinternet http://www.btinternet.com/~tinker.taylor/Athel/index.htm
22. burningcross http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/famous-quotes-christianity-2.html#Ferdinand-Magellan
23. cafemontenegro http://forum.cafemontenegro.com/showthread.php?t=16672
24. calgaryhumanist http://calgaryhumanist.ca/ericsquotes.html
25. capecod http://capecodhistory.us/quotes/superstition_and_reason.html
26. charleen http://charleen.mullenweg.com/category/quotes/
27. chas1222 http://members.aol.com/chas1222/bepart54.html
28. chisbeach http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/viewQuotes.php
29. chocolates http://www.chocolatesandcandy.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=faith
30. christchat http://www.christchat.com/showthread.php?t=1121
31. christianforums http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30591&p=355153#p355153
32. churchoffreethought http://www.churchoffreethought.org/cgi-bin/contray/contray.cgi?DATA=&ID=000011010&GROUP=048
33. chuckroberts http://www.chukroberts.net/quotes.txt
34. cindy http://cindy.foozoo.com/?page_id=200
35. city http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/81082-quotes.html
36. claustrophobic http://claustrophobic.blogspot.com/2007/05/in-short-magellan.html
37. condohouse http://www.condohouse.com/quote.html
38. covert http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2007/02/top-10-signs-youre-fundamentalist.html
39. ddoty http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ddoty/quotes.shtml
40. debris http://debrislibris.blogspot.com/
41. deviantart http://kyohi-no-mekura.deviantart.com/
42. digg http://digg.com/political_opinion/Peggy_Noonan_Admits_GOP_Is_Controlled_By_Fundies_Idiots
43. dsdv http://www.dsdv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9224&sid=699d7556b893ec85f3c34ff74d248453
44. dune2k http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?topic=15882.msg260988
45. dvorak http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15009
46. eclipse http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/waynesworld.htm
47. edstrange http://www.edstrange.com/quotes.html
48. eircom http://homepage.eircom.net/~odyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Reason.html
49. enygmasol http://enygmasol.tripod.com/quotes.html
50. erbzine http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1434b.html
51. ethicalatheist www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/quotes.html
52. evolve http://evolvefish.com/fish/posters.html Selling T-shirt with Magellan quote
53. excommunicate www.excommunicate.net/cognitive-dissonance
54. famous http://www.famousquotesandjokes.com/display_quotes/4/37/15/
55. fash10n http://fash10n-fr3ak.deviantart.com/
56. files files.meetup.com/532244/Humanist%20Quotes.doc
57. Firethefox http://www.firethefox.co.uk/viewQuotes.php?QuotePage=0
58. focus http://www.focusdep.com/quotes/authors/Ferdinand/Magellan
59. forum.myspace www.forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=47107644&groupID=100487807
60. forums http://forums.seds.org/archive/index.php/t-104.html
61. fractal http://fractalenlightenment.blogspot.com/2006/11/quotes-for-november-2006.html
62. freemindjoe http://freemindjoe.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-faith-in-shadow.html
63. freethought www.freethought.mbdojo.com/fav_quotes.htm
64. freewebs http://www.freewebs.com/thebgma/a00toc.html
65. frixos http://frixos.wordpress.com/2007/08/15/ferdinand-magellan/
66. fuseaction http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=8782083
67. Gainesville http://www.gainesvillehumanists.org/bumpers.htm
68. Gamewinners http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517470
69. gdargaud http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/QuotesReligion.html
70. generation http://www.generationterrorists.com/cgi-bin/quotes.cgi?start=150§ion=Famous+Words&per_page=50
71. geocities http://www.geocities.com/nighthawke700/quotations.htm
72. gestationism http://gestationism.com/
73. getquotes http://quote.robertgenn.com/getquotes.php?catid=28
74. giga www.giga-usa.com/quotes/authors/ferdinand_magellan_a001.htm
75. gin4 http://blog.myspace.com/gin4communion
76. goatstar http://www.goatstar.org/was-the-bible-cosmologically-ahead-of-its-time/
77. godless http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Quotes.htm
78. godlike http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message473828/pg1
79. god-m http://www.httpjoke.com/god-m.html
80. gods4suckers http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2005/12/page/2/
81. goose http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html
82. great http://great-misconceptions.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html
83. Haversian http://nielsolson.us/Haversian/2007/09/vagaboxs_obscure_counter_cultu.php
84. Helsinki http://www.helsinki.fi/~ssyreeni/quotes/quotes-c-06
85. hjaltihjalmarsson http://www.hjaltihjalmarsson.is/index.php?paged=6
86. home http://home.cinci.rr.com/iwishiwerebuffy/quotesko.htm
87. homepage http://homepage.mac.com/nickrosencrans/quotes.html
88. icebluenothing http://icebluenothing.livejournal.com/
89. iidb http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-63650.html
90. int-x http://www.int-x.org/doku.php?id=quotes
91. interlinked http://blog.interlinked.org/tags/misc/
92. irealm http://www.irealm.org/quotes/dispquote.php?page=m
93. ironwolf http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/
94. Jewishatheist http://jewishatheist.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_archive.html
95. jmpoz http://www. jimpoz.com/quotes/speaker.asp?speakerid=544.html
96. jnm7 http://www.jnm7.shou.pl/en/wiki/Talk:Ferdinand_Magellan.html
97. joshleeds http://joshleeds.com/8.html
98. Jsp http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=376369034
99. Kill http://killtheafterlife.blogspot.com/2006/08/christian-blogger-fakes-atheism-to.html
100. Kuro5hin http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/9/6/75920/26866
101. listology http://www.listology.com/login.cfm
102. listverse http://listverse.com/religion/top-15-quotes-by-famous-atheists
103. lonelyhouse http://lonelyhouse.wordpress.com/2006/06/
104. lotsafyre http://lotsafyre.com/quotes.htm
105. majikthise http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/01/sunday_sermonet.html
106. mancrush http://www.mancrush.com/mc/man/30
107. mega http://www.mega.nu/atheist_quotes_1.html
108. meme http://memeescape.blogspot.com/2005/12/company-we-keep-part-2.html
109. messages http://messages.yahoo.com/.../Astronomy/threadview?m=tm&bn=18934684&tid=215&mid=215&tof=9&frt=2
110. metafilter http://ask.metafilter.com/65701/Lev-1112-Whatsoever-hath-no-fins-nor-scales-in-the-waters-that-shall-be-an-abomination-unto-you
111. mindprod http://mindprod.com/religion/rquote.html#MAGELLAN
112. museum http://www.quotes-museum.com/quote/62716
113. musicalnuke http://musicalnuke.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html
114. mybroadband http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=81655&page=2
115. nada http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/Quotes/think
116. nanday http://www.nanday.com/quotes/?q=Ferdinand+Magellan&type=OR
117. narniafans http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3693
118. newordermormon http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtopic.php?p=71801&sid=47c855cfdaacc69923b1e5199e7f3434
119. nmsu http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/blawton/bio.html
120. northernsun http://www.northernsun.com/n/s/1645.html Site where quote is emblazoned in a T-shirt
121. nosha http://nosha.secularhumanism.net/Newsletter/NOSHA%20News%20Summer%202006.pdf
122. notobs www.notobs.com/farsi/efsha/quotes.htm
123. nuwen http://nuwen.net/quotes.html
124. nyctophilia http://www.nyctophilia.net/godquotes.html
125. nyu http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/atheists/quotes.html
126. optusnet http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/religious_quotes2.htm
127. palmyria http://www.palmyria.co.uk/superstition/quotes2.htm
128. pcper http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=437456&page=2
129. people http://peoplerstrange.deviantart.com/
130. personal http://www.personal-development.com/chuck/individualityconformity.htm
131. pharyngula http://pharyngula.org/infidelquotes.php
132. physics http://www.physics.miami.edu/~chris/quotes_robertson.html
133. positive http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/quote-m.htm
134. prayed http://www.prayedforinpublic.com/index.html?p=8
135. profile http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=47851316
136. quoteful http://quoteful.com/tag/Ferdinand
137. quoteland http://www.quoteland.com/author.asp?AUTHOR_ID=449
138. quotesandpoem http://www.quotesandpoem.com/quotes/listquotes/author/ferdinand-magellan
139. quotiki www.quotiki.com/person.aspx?au=1815
140. RabidApe http://tw.youtube.com/RabidApe
141. Radio http://radioactivequill.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_archive.html
142. ragarambler http://ragarambler.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html
143. reznor www.reznor.com/~aj/quotes/rel.html
144. robrusso www.robrusso.lunarpages.com/quotations.htm
145. rottentomatoes http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/printthread.php?t=406458
146. roundearth www.roundearth.org/quotes.html
147. runtowin http://runtowin.blogspot.com/
148. savemenot http://savemenot.wordpress.com/2007/11/05/power-of-prayer/
149. scalzi www.scalzi.com/whatever/005203.html
150. sedesdraconis http://www.sedesdraconis.com/index.php/Quote_Collection
151. seds http://forums.seds.org/archive/index.php/t-104.html
152. selfdefenseforum http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=163118
153. self-injury http://self-injury.net/doyousi/quotes/quote/letter/M/
154. serendip http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_cult/csem/f01/retelling.html
155. shmanda http://www.shmanda.com/allquotes.php
156. silversix http://www.silversix.nu/collectatheistquotes.htm
157. silver http://silver-gateway.com/wolf/wisdom.html
158. sinequanon http://sinequanonblog.squarespace.com/journal/2005/10/10/-on-luna-the-moon-and-her-mystery-.html
159. skeptically http://skeptically.org/againstreligion/id17.html
160. skepticfiles http://www.skepticfiles.org/think/cookies.htm
161. skepticfriends http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=5363
162. slickdeals http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=25045&page=2
163. smack http://smack.accesscard.org/index/misc/atheist/
164. snopes http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=11614
165. soggyfrog http://www.soggyfrog.com/
166. sqablogs http://www.sqablogs.com/jstrazzere/79/Sayings.html
167. stephenhicks http://stephenhicks.org/quotes.php
168. stillbarking http://stillbarkingmad.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/top-ten-proofs-that-creationists-are-liars/
169. stumbleupon http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.atheistempire.com/
170. stupac http://stupac2.blogspot.com/2006/09/6-commonly-believed-things-that-are.html
171. tangential http://www.geocities.com/tangental/mquotes.htm
172. techreport http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28900
173. teleport home.teleport.com/~packham/relquots.htm
174. tentmaker http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/religionquotes.htm
175. thedeathknight http://thedeathknight.com/Personal/Quotes.html
176. thegreenbelt http://thegreenbelt.blogspot.com/
177. theledger http://forums.theledger.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2631062365/m/8561062176/r/8461091476
178. theotherpages http://www.theotherpages.org/topic-r1.html
179. thescotsman http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3351670
180. thescrabbled http://thescrabbled.com/index.php?content=edit_post_form&post_id=18699
181. think http://www3.thinkexist.com/quotes/top/first-name/ferdinand/
182. thismetalsky http://www.thismetalsky.org/quotes/
183. thoughtstoblog http://www.thoughtstoblog.com/archives/2006/8
184. time http://www.timemachinego.com/linkmachinego/category/quote/
185. units http://units.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/2007/april/commentary.cfm
186. user http://user.aol.com/station019/quotes2.htm
187. users www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/quotes.html
188. uucava http://www.uucava.org/sermons/T-Shirt_09022001.htm
189. venganza http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god
190. Vietfun http://community.vietfun.com/showthread.php?t=495648&page=5
191. Wasptor http://radioactivequill.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_archive.html
192. weasner http://www.weasner.com/etx/archive/feedbackMar00.html
193. whatquote http://www.whatquote.com/quotes/Ferdinand-Magellan/16478-The-Church-says-that.htm
194. when http://whenisretirement.com/
195. Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Portugal/Quotes_archive
196. Wilsons http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/book/apr27.html
197. wisc http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ncb/includes/quotes.html
198. Wist http://www.wist.info/m/magellan_ferdinand/
199. worldofquotes http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Ferdinand-Magellan/1/index.html
200. wowmb http://www.wowmb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9994
201. xgenerationx0 http://xgenerationx0.tripod.com/index.html
202. zamanku http://zamanku.blogspot.com/
203. zackinaapron http://zackinaapron.deviantart.com/
Vicente Calibo de Jesus
ginesdemafra@gmail.com
Someone around here has too much free time, and for once I actually don't think it's me ...
ReplyDeleteVic, thanks for commenting so ... extensively. It was interesting (although I have to confess I didn't read the footnotes ;-). But in all honesty, whether or not the quote is genuine, I don't really care. Whoever said it, it's true. But thanks.