Like all countries with a Muslim population worth mentioning, we've got problems here in Norway with a very skewed statistic on drownings among children. No wonder, since the ability to swim is also so unevenly distributed. This isn't only a problem here, but it's perhaps more of a problem here than in a number of other countries. I mean, look at a map. Not being able to swim is a problem everywhere, but it's a serious problem in a country with a coastline from literally here to Rome.
This was recently borne out by an accident here in Oslo this week where two young boys, brothers, drowned. They were playing football by a lake, the younger brother (aged 9) got overheated and wanted to go in the lake to cool off. He got in too deep and got in trouble ... the older brother (12) tried to save him but drowned as well. They couldn't swim. Of course these were not Norwegian children. On the occasion of this event a disturbing statistic was publicized - death by drowning among children younger than 15 is on the rise. So far this year the number is double that from 2008. Sure, it's still a very low number - six children have drowned in Norway so far this year. That's very few, a very low percentage of all the children living in this country. But try telling that to the mother at Romsås who has now lost her two sons.
For whom this is of course sad ... and yet my sympathy is limited. It always has been for this kind of tragedy. IMO it's sad in principle, but I do not pity the bereaved, because they have brought it on themselves. It is their own prejudice, willful ignorance and blind submission to the ravings of an epileptic highwayman that has led them to this pass. 70% of fifth graders here in Oslo can't swim. Yes, of course there are ethnic Norwegians among them. Of course there are ethnic Norwegians who can't swim, children and adults alike - but this is irrelevant; two wrongs don't make a right. And the proportion of potential drownees is as I said completely skewed. The reason for this is something we can't have a proper discussion about, because that would make us racists, boo.
The reason is that there's something wrong with islam; something that is making it non-compatible with the proper functioning of our society. But that's so racist and insensitive and discriminatory, so we can't have that discussion. It must be avoided, even at the cost of children's lives. It's actually quite sickening. There is a comment in Aftenposten today, by the always interesting Mala Wang-Naveen ... she writes that unfortunately there are many parents in Oslo who apply to have their children excused from swimming class. Their irrational dumbass reason for this is of course the sinfulness of the human body and of the display of same. Wang-Naveen writes that the most provoking facet of this is that these parents have widespread support in the Muslim community. I disagree. The most provoking thing is that it's even possible for them to make such an application!! I do not want my child to learn a vital and life-saving skill, because I am superstitious. Why on earth is this not completely ignored? Why is there even an option to remove children from classes of this massive importance?? This is a matter of life and death. Muslim parents, you're not living in the desert anymore, take a look at a fucking map.
Upon these ridiculous and nauseating facts I base the title of this post. Because while it is sad that children die before they've had a chance to live, and from a cause that could so easily have been avoided, when the reason for their deaths is the irrational superstitions of their parents, my compassion is just ... let us say diverted to worthier causes. Let their children drown. Since that's the way they want it, let their children drown.
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20 hours ago
27 comments:
So agreed with u..
You show just how much you don`t know. In Islam it is sunnah to learn to swim, yes muslims have a dresscode but that should not be a problem. My son has just finished 7 grade and in his school it was only 10 swimminglessions that lasts for 45 min. That is not enough to learn how to swim properly.
As for the dresscode it should be respected it is not only the muslims that don`t wat to take off their clothes in front of other people. There are other people too that want to seperate boys and girls as many of them will feel more comfertable.
I think it is horrible that someone are beeing forced to get undressed in a way they are not comfertable with.
It is not very hard to do this in a way that evereyone are satisfyed.
It is just that there are always someone who want`s to dictate how other people are suppose to live, and they refuse to cooperate and come up with solutions that satisfye everyone.
My kids can swim because my husband and I tought it to them outside school.
quote: "It is just that there are always someone who want`s to dictate how other people are suppose to live, and they refuse to cooperate and come up with solutions that satisfye everyone."
everyone was happy witht he current solution before you came to "dictate how other people are supposed to live" kudos for doing it yourself though, dont see why this is such a big problem, if you want your kids to learn how to swim, teach them.
''I'm 33 years old. I live in Oslo, the capital of Norway. I love chocolate. I keep freshwater turtles. I like to travel and to see new places. I like to play board games and card games.''
you are still kid my son. grow alittel ;)
I am so piseed of muslims...
Why in the hell they come here to Norway and wanna have own Goverment?
Follow the rules here in Norway and put the fucking KORANEN in asses.
Let children swim and let them be together...
We live in 2010...not 1150!
Muslim in my ass..for ever
It is the parents’ responsibility, and not the Norwegian government’s responsibility, to ascertain that their children learn to swim. In Norwegian schools, swimming lessons are mandatory and, therefore, no exceptions should be made unless for medical reasons. In Norway boys and girls have sport activities and also swimming lessons together, if Muslim parents cannot accept this, they need to arrange private swimming lessons for their children. If the schools give these parents an exception to the policy, they should demand proof from these parents that their children have attended the necessary private swimming lesson. No parents, regardless of nationality or religion, can expect the Norwegian schools to make special arrangements for their children. If the children do not learn to swim and, therefore, a drowning accident happens, they can only blame themselves and not the Norwegian schools or government.
How closed minded can you get?
When you live in a democracy you should expect things like this...
You guys think too much like Communists, you want everything and everyone the same.
If someone wants privacy and not to be seen half naked, that is their right, they are FREE to do that.
You remind me of the Taliban they have the wardrobe police if you (man or woman) do not have enough clothing on, they give you a couple of whips in the street.
So what is next in Norway? we will have like the Taliban the wardrobe police, if you have Hijab or too much clothes on we will get whipped in the street!
@the dude with Muslim in his ass;
You should have that checked by a physician :)
Plus forget swimming lessons, English lessons is what you need
Just read in the comment in Aftenposten that at Gran School in Groruddalen, the children can swim fully clothed if they wish. What about the hygiene in these swimming pools? At every swimming pool I have ever visited, regardless of country, one has to undress and take a shower prior to entering the pool. If they are indeed allowed to enter fully dressed, anyone can imagine what this does to the cleanliness of the water in the pool.
I also believe that a swimsuit with hijab should not be introduced in the Norwegian schools. If the Muslim population does not accept rules and regulations we have in the Norwegian schools, they need to arrange private swimming lessons for their children
They do not only need to learn to swim, they also need to learn that it is perfectly OK to use clothes which fits the situation. If they learn to swim with clothes, what will happen if they are on a sinking ship? They will jump in with all their clothes and continue to the bottom of the ocean, probably they cannot even use a life vest, since it is not part of their dress code.
Religion is the mother of all the problems we have in this world. The more strict the religion is, it causes more problems.
When we was born, we all came naked, so the dresscode is just another religious problemmaker. Let the kids swim together, do not separate them because of a stupid religious dresscode that the kids even dont understand.
The more rules we have to introduce, and the more we have to separate our kids because of religious stupidity, the more we divide our country.
We need to have a country that is not divided, and if our ways of living is so different, we can not live together without massive problems. You do not have to be Einstein to understand that.
When we hae the cold war in the 60's, we lived in a world where we divided the world based on political standings, and you could not get a visa to e.g. visit USA.
Now we face another type of cold war, based on religion (again *sigh*) and with all the problems some elements bring with their medieval visions, we need to shut them out the same way until they accept our level of living in the 2010.
Yeah I agree, I have no sympathy for people whos stupidity causes the death of themselves or someone close to them. Mandatory means everyone has to do it, unless they are physically or mentally unable to. But in the core I'm not a very empathic person anyway. I care little for the misfortune of others.
"I think it is horrible that someone are beeing forced to get undressed in a way they are not comfertable with."
Yes, yes, of course. They are probably forcing the little children to molest eachother as well. We're all humans, we are very well aware that our bodies are different. Not just boy v girl but differences in individuals too. I know they don't want to have others see their private parts, but that's understandable, but all you gotta do is wrap a towel around you when you go from underwear to swimwear.. And most schools allow boys and girls to put a t-shirt on their upper bodies if they still feel uncomfortable. But if they even after THAT has a problem with anyone seeing them then I say deal with it. Life ain't perfect and if someone seeing some of your skin is worth complaining about you got it pretty fucking sweet in life.
"It is just that there are always someone who wants to dictate how other people are suppose to live."
Oh yes, the sweet understanding muslim people. Here in Norway openly gay couples have been assaulted by muslims on the street and ethnic norwegian girls are having names such as "whore" shouted after them by muslim males. And of course the rapings, men from muslim countries are responsible for most rapes in Norway. I guess they can't understand that women are free to decide their own lives. And they get provoked by these "whores". Either that or they can't comprehend that some ehnic norwegian girls aren't attracted to foreign men, and that ain't racism it's PREFERENCE.
And of course the "morale" police in the shape of several muslims that report any "immoral" behavior to eachother so that they can keep their own kids from doing such heinous acts as partying and being interested in the opposite sex! Oh my, these kids are out of control. And of course the mutilations of girls, been several cases where muslim parents send their girls back to the homeland to get mutilated by the family. Keep in mind this is not the majority but it still happens enough to have its own term: FGM - Female Genital Mutilation.
"How closed minded can you get?
When you live in a democracy you should expect things like this...
You guys think too much like Communists, you want everything and everyone the same."
How close minded can YOU get? We live in 2010, not 1980 the red scare is over so tossing words like communist or socialist around has no effect here.
"If someone wants privacy and not to be seen half naked, that is their right, they are FREE to do that."
Learning to swim is MANDATORY, and becides most schools allow the students to put on a t-shirt. Some even allow them to swim with a wetsuit if they want too. The point is, they should learn to swim. But by all means, let muslims drown, I don't care.
"You remind me of the Taliban they have the wardrobe police if you (man or woman) do not have enough clothing on, they give you a couple of whips in the street."
Let me get this straight, you're comparing mandatatory swimming lessons, with a terror organization? You Sir, are an idiot.
So, don't try and change or complain about our way of life, and adjust yourself to OUR community. You live HERE, keep a tight grip on your culture, that's your right. But some things must change, no two cultures are 100% compatible. And YOU came HERE so we're not the ones that have to adjust. If you don't like it here, then GET THE FUCK OUT. I certainly don't want you here.
Uncomfortble being half-naked in front of other people? should that be a reason to die? i was uncomfortble standing in front of the class answering math questions, but they forced me to do it anyway. and that wasn`t even a mater of life and death..
the point is that you wont be proned to psychological issues if you happen to see some skin of the oposite sex from time to time. that we know. so whenever someone say: "i have a thosand year old book that says otherwise, and i need to do anything the book says even if it means death to me or my children." then so be it.. but it`s kind of really unfair to the children..
I actually wrote alot more, forgot that most of these things got a character limit. So I removed about 1200 letters or so.
@Anonymous July 3, 2:23
If your son did not learn to how swim in seven and a half hours, that might be his problem, perhaps he is a slow learner? I am glad you and your husband taught your children how to swim; unfortunately not all parents are as responsible as you.
As far as I know nobody is forced to take off their clothes in front of other people at swimming pools, they have individual changing stalls where you can change into your swim wear. You write “There are other people too that want to seperate boys and girls as many of them will feel more comfortable”. What other people? Other people than the Muslims? I have problems believing that, why should ethnic Norwegians want to separate boys and girls? Norway is a modern and developed country; we do not have problems with mixed groups of girls and boys, so who are the “other people”?
You also write “I think it is horrible that someone are beeing forced to get undressed in a way they are not comfertable with.” What a statement! Who is forcing whom?
And last but not least, nobody in Norway “dictates how other people are suppose to live”. In any civilized country, its population, regardless of citizenship, religion or cultural background, have to follow that country’s law, rules and regulations, it is as simple as that.
The Muslims have a tendency to play a martyr role if they do not receive what they think the Norwegian government owes them. Unfortunately, the spineless Norwegian government has during the past years let them get away with murder, in every sense of the word. Let’s make one thing clear, the Norwegian government owes these people nothing. Nobody forced them to come to Norway, and now that they are here, they have to accept that they have no more rights in this country than the ethnic Norwegians.
To anonymous 2.23: Why should we come up with solutions that satisfy everyone? You live in our country and, therefore, we do not need to find any solutions, you only need to accept our culture and live accordingly. If you don’t like it, leave.
Solution is easy:
I Norway its forbiddenn by law to keep your children away from school unless you give them a satisfying alternative.
Don't make exceptions for swimmingclasses.
Muslims have to obey the law in the country they live in according to the Koran.
So then either you have to let your kids attend the swimmingclasses at school or you prove that you have arranged a satisfying alternative for them.
Always problems with musilms.
Why do these medieval people choose to live here in a modern society?
I'm sick and tired of muslims, why dont you go back to where you came from.
For the record I am ethnic Norwegian and a muslim so I did not come to this country, it is my country as well as yours. I do not demand more rights, I only want the same rights as everyone else.
My kidz could swim long before they had lessions at school, so that is not the problem for me. My kidz attended the swimminglession at school as well fully dressed. That is because we have islam as our guideline. I respect that others don`t and expekt others to recpekt that I do. I am not telling non muslims to get dressed as it is their rights not to so respect my rights to be dressed. It is not a problem with taking a shower before you go to the pool either.
As for the democtraty in norway..... keep thinking it is, hello norwegians even wants to diktate hvat people should wear on their head.
Most muslims in norway follow the law and rules here it is just that it dosent sell in the media. Try an get some friends that are not like you and you all hopefully will not stay so narrowminded.
Trude!
For the record I am ethnic Norwegian and a muslim so I did not come to this country, it is my country as well as yours. I do not demand more rights, I only want the same rights as everyone else.
My kidz could swim long before they had lessions at school, so that is not the problem for me. My kidz attended the swimminglession at school as well fully dressed. That is because we have islam as our guideline. I respect that others don`t and expekt others to recpekt that I do. I am not telling non muslims to get dressed as it is their rights not to so respect my rights to be dressed. It is not a problem with taking a shower before you go to the pool either.
As for the democtraty in norway..... keep thinking it is, hello norwegians even wants to diktate hvat people should wear on their head.
Most muslims in norway follow the law and rules here it is just that it dosent sell in the media. Try an get some friends that are not like you and you all hopefully will not stay so narrowminded.
Trude!
To Trude:
Good point. Finding solutions (beeing fully dressed at swimmingclasses) without making a big issue and wanting to change everything is the way to go. That's in my opinion the right way to adapt to a multireligios sociesty.
There is various ways to read the Koran. People also read the Bible the way they want. Not all muslims see mixed swimmingclasses and waring a bathingsuit as a problem.
Narrow minded and COMMUNIST...
Communism is a live and well (China) you just live in lala land and unaware of it!
Communism is kept a live by people like you that want everyone to be the same.
People of different culture and backgrounds are here and they are here to stay, so GET used to it.
Get a clue and try to come out of the cave that you live in every once in a while.
so glad to see rational arguments from people hiding behind "anonymous".
the sad thing is that its not just Muslims beliefs that harm kids and cause prejudices amongst people
To Anonymous July 3, 2010 2:37 PM
Get your butt back here in 2010. As I stated before, the red scare is over, communists are not up to some big secret plan of world domination, and you are an idiot for bringing communism up in a thread about muslims.
We are here to stay so deal with it you COMMI :)
It’s actually appalling to see how an issue that could be resolved amicably brings out the collective fears of an entire society…I am not religious myself, but at least I respect the right of other people to be religious, if they wish so.
It seems that many people have the concept of democracy somewhat mixed in their heads. Democracy does not mean that I get to dictate to everybody what they will do, democracy means I respect alternative points of view and cherish tolerance, meaning that I respect the opinions of the other segments of society as well. Now, you don’t really need to like or approve of these opinions. This is called democracy. Democracy is not either my way or nothing at all. Democracy means I listen to what the other person has to say and I take his differences into consideration. Of course everybody is equal, but they also have the right to be different.
Re. the swimming classes, I am pretty much sure that a solution could be find, taking the cultural singularities of Muslims into consideration. If you want to present your society as an open and multicultural one, you really need to take these singularities into consideration. Lashing out and bashing is not a solution to anything at all.
@Elie
I agree with you 100%
I am thankful that there are people like you in the world today.
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